I wrote a fantasy novel specifically for my 5th grade students. I decided to self-publish for exactly the reasons you mentioned above. There are serious downsides to this: I had to do and pay for everything myself -- 4 rounds of editing, cover art, illustration in the novel, layout, etc., etc, etc. It was expensive. And since I'm self-published I have nobody organizing events, pushing the book to bookstores, marketing, etc. It's all just me.
The advantage is the novel is exactly what I want it to be. And I get to share it with the audience I care about most -- my current, former, and future students.
I can write without worrying about diversity checkboxes. I can create a plot instead of ideology. I can create characters instead of intersectionalities. I can build themes instead of echoing the same old Marxist paradigm.
But there's no doubt, it's harder to do it all myself. And there's no doubt my sales numbers are nothing compared to what they'd be if I had a publisher working with me and promoting my book.
I don't know: we learned from the anti-trust Penguin Random House trials a few years back that most debut read pub authors sell very few copies and make either a tiny or even no advance nowadays.
I noticed the same type of thing in Writer’s Digest’s agent roundup issue this year. The publishing industry seems to be very pragmatic, though, and I can’t imagine there is a big enough readership in these areas for every publisher to justify excluding normal topics forever.
You've never heard the saying 'the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent'?
I do think enough breakout books for normal people succeeding as indies might eventually convince some publishing house to defect. The problem is, you're specifically looking to (a) publish literary fiction and (b) take your position in the line that goes Shakespeare, Milton, Dickens, Eliot, Pound, Updike, Roth...
Have you tried Lionel Shriver? She's a modern author with similar politics, and seeing how women specifically have approached the modern novel without being, I don't know, Margaret Atwood or Sally Rooney might be useful.
The situation does indeed appear bleak based on agent profiles, but there are reasons for hope. Take a look at the Booker prize shortlist for 2024, for instance-- doesn't check many standard-issue DEI boxes as far as I can tell, including the three debut novelists. I suspect a certain amount of this (not all, mind you) is moral grandstanding on the part of agents, who ultimately will represent what they believe will sell.
At least, that's what I tell myself as I work on my manuscript : )
Interesting take. You might have something here. Agents feel a certain way (mostly angry young rich white progressives) but publishers look at bottom lines. We've seen a few squeak in.
I think it’s the other way around. The publishers have been ideologically captured and the agents, while also captured, are just repeating what the publishers tell them they’re looking for. Agents just want to sign contracts, and they stay in constant contact with the editors to learn what they’re looking for.
We know that publishing is rapidly losing money. If I had to take a guess, I would wager that part of their problem is that they keep pushing out ridiculous books that no one reads. At what point will they all have to surrender to the forces of the market? Or will they all be in denial just like the far left is in denial about why Trump won the election?
Thank goodness Charles Dickens, JRR Tolkien, et al, didn't have to meet the pseudo-standards of these so-called publishers. The World would be much more impoverished today. This is not about great literature, but about propagandizing ideologies. That's it. How sad and pathetic. When our libraries stop buying this genre, the publishing houses will continue pumping them out, the libraries will be filled to overflowing, and the depth of quality literature will be impoverished.
Read the wikipedia article on Dickens. Dude serialized his novels, sold merchandise, made cheap and expensive editions to appeal to different classes...
As for Tolkien, he was a 'philology' (proto-linguistics, more or less) prof who just wanted a place to stick the languages he was making up for kicks. His love for myth led him to invent an entirely new genre...people were hungry for that kind of story.
I was wondering if you were going to address this. As I build my own excel list of possible agents, I too have noticed the number of agents who seem unlikely to want to read any stories about a young white boy. Which is unfortunately what I am pitching--my Dad's short stories based on his experiences growing up in a fruit tramp family during the Great Depression. I keep thinking -- at least he was really poor. I ticked a box!
Liza, Sorry you have to wade through this literal shit. The wife and I enjoy your writing and posts. It was eye opening indeed to read your collected agent wish lists. Looks like literary agents have descended to the level of bias and stupidity evidenced by recent graduates of Harvard, Yale, and Columbia. It also explains why I haven’t liked a single book published by the majors in the last 10 yrs. Keep pushing. We’ll buy.
Most agents are not lawyers. You will pay them to negotiate a legal contract for you that will affect your career for a long time. And sometimes agencies have very sticky fingers. (See what happened to Chuck Palahniuk). If you sign with an agent, you will be handing your books and your business and all the attendant paperwork to a total stranger (in most cases).
Trad publishers will take your copyright. They will say “You get your rights back when your book goes out of print” and they’ll make sure the book never goes out of “print.” They’ll buy one ebook copy a year or something similar to say book is still in print. Why do this? It has something to do taxes and creative accounting.
If these wishlists are a reflection of the majority of readers out there then we're doomed. But I suspect it's not. Rather that the publication "factory line" is over populated with a mixture of woke / far left / indoctrinated agents. Perhaps those propagating self publication is right? If your book is a best seller then they'll come running after you!
Such an amazing article, Liza! Every publisher and up and coming writer needs to read it! It should also be read in every high school and college English class in the nation! This is what NOT to do when writing a novel. These lists are all hilariously stupid and downright bizarre. Fat stories? Queer elves of color? Neurodiverse representation? Emo kids? What planet are these people from? Who outside of radical leftists would read such nonsense? Is representation for all people important? To be sure. But there’s a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. Black, Latino, women, LGBT, disabled, etc. writers absolutely should get opportunities to publish their books but based on the merits of their work NOT their identity. Should there be a diverse array of characters in novels? Absolutely! But they must be well-written characters and part of a well-written story that is about more than just their identity. You don’t have to force diversity into stories or constantly bring up someone’s skin color, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. to ensure all people’s experiences are heard! Just do it naturally through a good story and showing that we as a human race are all one despite those differences. That should be the focus breaking barriers between people not emphasizing them! You are like a modern-day, literary version of Diane Sawyer Liza with all your hard-hitting stories on the publishing industry’s definite DEI problem! I can assure you that if Zora Neale Hurston, Oscar Wilde and James Baldwin were alive today they’d be appalled and sickened by the current state of the publishing industry. Call me crazy, but I have no interest in reading a book on queer, pansexual Trolls of color who are Leprechaun attracted. I want great literature about universal themes we can all relate to that has a great cast of characters of whatever color, creed, gender, sexuality, gender identity, level of ability, ethnicity, or national origin. I myself have Asperger’s Syndrome and while I’m always happy to see disabled characters in books, I don’t need to have them in a book to find characters I can relate to. Nor would I want their disability to be all the book is about. Disabled people like Neurodiverse folks like me are more than just how our brain is wired. We’re four dimensional human beings like everyone else thank you very much!
What a shitshow! The bullet points are like a list of the least interesting things to read.
That last one was laugh out loud, no morality or trying to teach the tweens and teens anything!
Exactly!
These manuscripts wish lists are nearly self-parody
Delete 'nearly' 😮
I wrote a fantasy novel specifically for my 5th grade students. I decided to self-publish for exactly the reasons you mentioned above. There are serious downsides to this: I had to do and pay for everything myself -- 4 rounds of editing, cover art, illustration in the novel, layout, etc., etc, etc. It was expensive. And since I'm self-published I have nobody organizing events, pushing the book to bookstores, marketing, etc. It's all just me.
The advantage is the novel is exactly what I want it to be. And I get to share it with the audience I care about most -- my current, former, and future students.
I can write without worrying about diversity checkboxes. I can create a plot instead of ideology. I can create characters instead of intersectionalities. I can build themes instead of echoing the same old Marxist paradigm.
But there's no doubt, it's harder to do it all myself. And there's no doubt my sales numbers are nothing compared to what they'd be if I had a publisher working with me and promoting my book.
I don't know: we learned from the anti-trust Penguin Random House trials a few years back that most debut read pub authors sell very few copies and make either a tiny or even no advance nowadays.
What might happen is that publishers will start selling AI novels about official victim groups.
Shit. You know, you're right.
I noticed the same type of thing in Writer’s Digest’s agent roundup issue this year. The publishing industry seems to be very pragmatic, though, and I can’t imagine there is a big enough readership in these areas for every publisher to justify excluding normal topics forever.
Right, I hope that sooner or later the invisible hand will take over and set everything straight.
You've never heard the saying 'the market can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent'?
I do think enough breakout books for normal people succeeding as indies might eventually convince some publishing house to defect. The problem is, you're specifically looking to (a) publish literary fiction and (b) take your position in the line that goes Shakespeare, Milton, Dickens, Eliot, Pound, Updike, Roth...
Have you tried Lionel Shriver? She's a modern author with similar politics, and seeing how women specifically have approached the modern novel without being, I don't know, Margaret Atwood or Sally Rooney might be useful.
The situation does indeed appear bleak based on agent profiles, but there are reasons for hope. Take a look at the Booker prize shortlist for 2024, for instance-- doesn't check many standard-issue DEI boxes as far as I can tell, including the three debut novelists. I suspect a certain amount of this (not all, mind you) is moral grandstanding on the part of agents, who ultimately will represent what they believe will sell.
At least, that's what I tell myself as I work on my manuscript : )
Interesting take. You might have something here. Agents feel a certain way (mostly angry young rich white progressives) but publishers look at bottom lines. We've seen a few squeak in.
I think it’s the other way around. The publishers have been ideologically captured and the agents, while also captured, are just repeating what the publishers tell them they’re looking for. Agents just want to sign contracts, and they stay in constant contact with the editors to learn what they’re looking for.
We know that publishing is rapidly losing money. If I had to take a guess, I would wager that part of their problem is that they keep pushing out ridiculous books that no one reads. At what point will they all have to surrender to the forces of the market? Or will they all be in denial just like the far left is in denial about why Trump won the election?
“YA where characters have jobs"—I think that's "David Copperfield"?..
Thank goodness Charles Dickens, JRR Tolkien, et al, didn't have to meet the pseudo-standards of these so-called publishers. The World would be much more impoverished today. This is not about great literature, but about propagandizing ideologies. That's it. How sad and pathetic. When our libraries stop buying this genre, the publishing houses will continue pumping them out, the libraries will be filled to overflowing, and the depth of quality literature will be impoverished.
Read the wikipedia article on Dickens. Dude serialized his novels, sold merchandise, made cheap and expensive editions to appeal to different classes...
As for Tolkien, he was a 'philology' (proto-linguistics, more or less) prof who just wanted a place to stick the languages he was making up for kicks. His love for myth led him to invent an entirely new genre...people were hungry for that kind of story.
Yes. 100%. You got that right!
"Books that capture the queer vibes of Mulan in her Wreck-It Ralph 2 outfit"
I was wondering if you were going to address this. As I build my own excel list of possible agents, I too have noticed the number of agents who seem unlikely to want to read any stories about a young white boy. Which is unfortunately what I am pitching--my Dad's short stories based on his experiences growing up in a fruit tramp family during the Great Depression. I keep thinking -- at least he was really poor. I ticked a box!
So sad that we have to think of it in terms of "ticking a box." My heart goes out to you and wishing you the very best in finding an agent!
Yeah except lit agents hate poor whites probably more than any group right now.
Liza, Sorry you have to wade through this literal shit. The wife and I enjoy your writing and posts. It was eye opening indeed to read your collected agent wish lists. Looks like literary agents have descended to the level of bias and stupidity evidenced by recent graduates of Harvard, Yale, and Columbia. It also explains why I haven’t liked a single book published by the majors in the last 10 yrs. Keep pushing. We’ll buy.
Thank you so much! This made my day :)
You are very welcome! Mazel Tov!
Most agents are not lawyers. You will pay them to negotiate a legal contract for you that will affect your career for a long time. And sometimes agencies have very sticky fingers. (See what happened to Chuck Palahniuk). If you sign with an agent, you will be handing your books and your business and all the attendant paperwork to a total stranger (in most cases).
Trad publishers will take your copyright. They will say “You get your rights back when your book goes out of print” and they’ll make sure the book never goes out of “print.” They’ll buy one ebook copy a year or something similar to say book is still in print. Why do this? It has something to do taxes and creative accounting.
They will also do next to no promotion.
. . .
Yes, I self-publish my gothic horror books.
And I am having the time of my life.
👍👍
This. This is right on.
100% 💯
If these wishlists are a reflection of the majority of readers out there then we're doomed. But I suspect it's not. Rather that the publication "factory line" is over populated with a mixture of woke / far left / indoctrinated agents. Perhaps those propagating self publication is right? If your book is a best seller then they'll come running after you!
Yo, Liza, I love you and what you’re doing
Thank you!
Such an amazing article, Liza! Every publisher and up and coming writer needs to read it! It should also be read in every high school and college English class in the nation! This is what NOT to do when writing a novel. These lists are all hilariously stupid and downright bizarre. Fat stories? Queer elves of color? Neurodiverse representation? Emo kids? What planet are these people from? Who outside of radical leftists would read such nonsense? Is representation for all people important? To be sure. But there’s a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it. Black, Latino, women, LGBT, disabled, etc. writers absolutely should get opportunities to publish their books but based on the merits of their work NOT their identity. Should there be a diverse array of characters in novels? Absolutely! But they must be well-written characters and part of a well-written story that is about more than just their identity. You don’t have to force diversity into stories or constantly bring up someone’s skin color, gender, religion, sexual orientation, etc. to ensure all people’s experiences are heard! Just do it naturally through a good story and showing that we as a human race are all one despite those differences. That should be the focus breaking barriers between people not emphasizing them! You are like a modern-day, literary version of Diane Sawyer Liza with all your hard-hitting stories on the publishing industry’s definite DEI problem! I can assure you that if Zora Neale Hurston, Oscar Wilde and James Baldwin were alive today they’d be appalled and sickened by the current state of the publishing industry. Call me crazy, but I have no interest in reading a book on queer, pansexual Trolls of color who are Leprechaun attracted. I want great literature about universal themes we can all relate to that has a great cast of characters of whatever color, creed, gender, sexuality, gender identity, level of ability, ethnicity, or national origin. I myself have Asperger’s Syndrome and while I’m always happy to see disabled characters in books, I don’t need to have them in a book to find characters I can relate to. Nor would I want their disability to be all the book is about. Disabled people like Neurodiverse folks like me are more than just how our brain is wired. We’re four dimensional human beings like everyone else thank you very much!